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T O P I C R E V I E Whypatia238I came across the following in another thread:"Because the Composite Chart is a Midpoint Chart, it's not possible to be "positive" of the sign placement of any of the planets. The most that you can do is to be sure of the sign axis.In general, when working with midpoints, the sign and house position is not taken into consideration. Most midpoint work is done using the 90 degree dial which ignores the individual signs and houses entirely and operates entirely based on hard aspects. Each point on the 90 degree dial is actually 4 points on the 360 wheel, so when working with midpoints, both the direct and the opposite midpoint are combined, along with the two points that square the midpoint axis. Midpoints between two planets can be "triggered" at any of the 4 points: the direct (or near) midpoint, the opposite (far) midpoint, and also at the two points squaring the midpoints. Considering the Composite Chart is a midpoint chart, this is a pretty compelling argument to ignore the signs."So do you ignore Kites, Mystic rectangles and Grand Trines and only focus on conjunctions, oppositions and squares? Can soft aspects not be felt in midpoint composite charts?GabbyFascinating thought....the best comp charts I've ever had never went anywhere. Full of grand trines and one had a perfect envelope, but nothing materialized from it.LeeLoo2014I disagree To give an example, I have Moon in Leo sq his Moon in Scorpio. There are two possible signs for the mdp of this square: one in Libra and one in Virgo. Of course, we are talking the proximal mdp of the sq, but even if we include the distal mdps, we have two possible axes: Libra/Aries OR Virgo/Pisces. The difference in the sign of the mdps depends on the decans of the natal placements, in this case the Moons. This would be the first personalized input. Based on the sign position of the mdp, we have two possible couples with this square, and the flavor of the sign will matter, triggering either the natal placements in Libra OR Virgo, and giving a flavor to the composite Moon. A couple with the same square will have two different results in the composite, two different lunar flavors. Even the house may matter, such as where this composite Moon falls in the natal houses.Of course, the composite is entirely metaphorical (no actual placements in the sky) but the metaphor is pretty straightforward; mathematically speaking, although abstract, it is very valid, for geometry is based on regular structures which include midpoints (symmetrical structures are mdps structures). ------------------ I seem to have loved you in numberless forms... AstroMandalaNew ProfilesLeeLoo2014After you create the mdps, having them connected (which means on similar degree), either by soft or hard aspects, is very important, IMO. It's a metaphorical map of CONNECTION. At this point, transits will trigger those composite aspects, in turn triggering the synastric aspects on their mdp, and this is when the composite is back on the sky it becomes astronomical again.What you have with the composite is an activation of the aspects in synastry and in the natals.Gabby quote:Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:I disagree To give an example, I have Moon in Leo sq his Moon in Scorpio. There are two possible signs for the mdp of this square: one in Libra and one in Virgo. Of course, we are talking the proximal mdp of the sq, but even if we include the distal mdps, we have two possible axes: Libra/Aries OR Virgo/Pisces. The difference in the sign of the mdps depends on the decans of the natal placements, in this case the Moons. This would be the first personalized input. Based on the sign position of the mdp, we have two possible couples with this square, and the flavor of the sign will matter, triggering either the natal placements in Libra OR Virgo, and giving a flavor to the composite Moon. A couple with the same square will have two different results in the composite, two different lunar flavors. Even the house may matter, such as where this composite Moon falls in the natal houses.Of course, the composite is entirely metaphorical (no actual placements in the sky) but the metaphor is pretty straightforward; mathematically speaking, although abstract, it is very valid, for geometry is based on regular structures which include midpoints (symmetrical structures are mdps structures). LeeLoo...do you think composites with lots of trines and sextiles will be felt as much if they don't have any squares to cause the stress that sparks each persons interest or fascination with each other? LeeLoo2014I haven't seen successful composites with just soft aspects. I think the hard aspects in a composite project the idea of strong connection because they reflect how a composite was built ( with the 4th harmonic). I also think they symbolically project the idea of:composite conj - unioncomposite opp - polarity, couplecomposite sq - something to work on, building, active, dynamicthen you need the soft aspects to mediate between those with flow, acceptance, continuity, durability, comforthypatia238 quote:Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:I haven't seen successful composites with just soft aspects. I think the hard aspects in a composite project the idea of strong connection because they reflect how a composite was built ( with the 4th harmonic). I also think they symbolically project the idea of:composite conj - unioncomposite opp - polarity, couplecomposite sq - something to work on, building, active, dynamicthen you need the soft aspects to mediate between those with flow, acceptance, continuity, durability, comfortGabby quote:Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:I haven't seen successful composites with just soft aspects. I think the hard aspects in a composite project the idea of strong connection because they reflect how a composite was built ( with the 4th harmonic). I also think they symbolically project the idea of:composite conj - unioncomposite opp - polarity, couplecomposite sq - something to work on, building, active, dynamicthen you need the soft aspects to mediate between those with flow, acceptance, continuity, durability, comfortThat makes so much sense!! GabbyWould that make the Davidson more accurate? CeridwenIf looking at harmonious aspects, I usually mainly look at the aspectconfigurations, which will result in midpoint-configurations anyway. And nope, I don´t believe an isolated sextile will have that much sway. hypatia238 quote:Originally posted by Ceridwen:If looking at harmonious aspects, I usually mainly look at the aspectconfigurations, which will result in midpoint-configurations anyway. And nope, I don´t believe an isolated sextile will have that much sway. Thanks Ceri so you do include trines and sextiles if they are part of a kite or mystic rectangle or a grand trine but not if isolated?That makes me feel better, I do like those astrological patterns in composite.AubyanneI think, if anything, we need to focus on the axis part, and remember that both signs may be equally valid. I'm not sure exactly what that does for oppositions in a composite, however -- whether it creates a resonant feeling of a potential conjunction, by the point 'flipping' the axis.I'll use mine as an example; my cSUN is 28º Leo with my boyfriend, and our cMOON at 08º Aquarius. If, technically, they're midpoints, then the SUN could be 28º Aquarius, just as easily as the MOON is 08º Leo. While we don't get conjunctions from that, it's interesting that they could share 'equal space' of the sign: SUN in either Aquarius or Leo; Moon in either Leo, or Aquarius. While they won't be in the same sign, at the same time, it's still an intriguing thought. Makes one think. CeridwenHypatia, I would probably also keep notice of a very exact isolated trine, but I am not sure how much power it has on its own. No scratch that, I am pretty sure it does not hold that much power on its own. However if it is part of a Grand trine, or a third planet closely sextiles it, then yes, definitely. For example in my composite there is a 1 degree trine of Venus to EROS on the IC, which I find pretty beautiful to be honest. Interestingly enough however PHOLUS is sextile both, and it makes a lot of sense. I would ALWAYS give precedence to aspect-patterns as compared to isolated aspects, so yes, I would use the Kite, GT, Yod, golden Yod etc. Ceridwen quote:Originally posted by Aubyanne:I think, if anything, we need to focus on the axis part, and remember that both signs may be equally valid. I agree. It of course raises the old questions about midpoints,is the near midpoint more important than the far midpoint?If two planets are rather close to each othr, let`s say Sag and Aquarius, it seems to make sense that the Cappy-midpoint takes precedence, as it is so close to both planets. However, what do we think about two planets in almost exact opposition then?Of course let`s say, Mars on 5 Sag and Mars on 7 Gemini. Technically the Virgo midpoint is the near one, or let`s say they are in EXACT opposition, maybe differring just about a few minutes. Surely we can make a near mp too, but it starts looking not just as logical to me, as the Aqua-Sag-example. I personally view them as an axis, but giving a little more weight to the near midpoint, which might be just arbitrary choice of mine. OrangeIn the Composite chart, all "planets" are result of midpoints, and Midpoint astrologers do not consider aspects between two midpoints, so any aspects in a composite chart should not be considered at all, according to the midpoint concept, since an aspect between composite planets is basically an aspect between two midpoints. . except for conjunction and oppositions maybe, and mostly in regard to transits, since a transit to a midpoint conjunction means the transiting planets goes over the midpoints (of both partners) at the same time. Also, the Composite "planets" should be analysed for conjunction/opposition to each natal chart at the most, since the natal planets of partners positioned at a partner's midpoint (a composite planet) would affect it. Uranian astrologers do consider aspects between midpoints but only the hard aspects. Not sure how valid that is but there was a guy on here, Todd, who did excellent analyses on aspects ( hard aspects) between midpoints. So, based on midpoint astrology alone( since the composite chart is a midpoint chart), no other aspects in the composite chart shall be valid but conjunctions/oppositions. hard aspects are done by some but not by others.... also , forgot to say - midpoint astrology, in its general concept, do not separate the aspects to good or bad, they only work with hard aspects and none of these hard aspects are considered negative, they are just regarded as aspects that produce action. Aunt AnomaliaAhem. How seriously should I take a trine between Mars and Uranus, 5 deg? Mars rules an angle. Without this aspect they would be both unaspected.------------------Anomaling around since 1911.LeeLoo2014I have no problem with soft aspects in the comp, all aspects in there play out, IMO. They are almost never isolated, btw, in an existing composite, they create triangles. I tried to find isolated soft aspects in my database of couples and I didn't.I am looking at the sextile between Venus and Saturn in Newman composite. It's not isolated, it's part of a complex configuration with 8th harmonic, quincunx, angles etc.The sextile speaks by itself though. It says their symbolic common Venus in Aqua interacts with their symbolic common Saturn in Sag, on similar degrees. No transit on this Venus would leave Saturn untouched and viceversa. Everything happening on the sky at 12 degrees activates this sextile. The activation of this sextile means the simultaneous activation of 4 planets in the synastry: their Venuses and their Saturns. Which means there is a continuous interplay between their common Venus and their common Saturn, for there are always planets in the sky transiting degree 12. From the natal POV, excluding progressions, the interplay between Venus and Saturn in their relationship/couple will always have a sextile vibe, with flavor depending on the transits, but it remains a basic sextile energy: it's an aspect of working together for long term love and building a relationship and a family on 11th house values, with Venus IC ruler in the 1st and Saturn chart ruler in the 11th. With the sextile, this comes easily and natural to them, almost automatic.It's a very powerful, emblematic aspect in their composite.------------------ I seem to have loved you in numberless forms... AstroMandalaNew Profiles
"Because the Composite Chart is a Midpoint Chart, it's not possible to be "positive" of the sign placement of any of the planets. The most that you can do is to be sure of the sign axis.In general, when working with midpoints, the sign and house position is not taken into consideration. Most midpoint work is done using the 90 degree dial which ignores the individual signs and houses entirely and operates entirely based on hard aspects. Each point on the 90 degree dial is actually 4 points on the 360 wheel, so when working with midpoints, both the direct and the opposite midpoint are combined, along with the two points that square the midpoint axis. Midpoints between two planets can be "triggered" at any of the 4 points: the direct (or near) midpoint, the opposite (far) midpoint, and also at the two points squaring the midpoints. Considering the Composite Chart is a midpoint chart, this is a pretty compelling argument to ignore the signs."
So do you ignore Kites, Mystic rectangles and Grand Trines and only focus on conjunctions, oppositions and squares? Can soft aspects not be felt in midpoint composite charts?
Of course, the composite is entirely metaphorical (no actual placements in the sky) but the metaphor is pretty straightforward; mathematically speaking, although abstract, it is very valid, for geometry is based on regular structures which include midpoints (symmetrical structures are mdps structures).
------------------ I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...
AstroMandala
New Profiles
What you have with the composite is an activation of the aspects in synastry and in the natals.
quote:Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:I disagree To give an example, I have Moon in Leo sq his Moon in Scorpio. There are two possible signs for the mdp of this square: one in Libra and one in Virgo. Of course, we are talking the proximal mdp of the sq, but even if we include the distal mdps, we have two possible axes: Libra/Aries OR Virgo/Pisces. The difference in the sign of the mdps depends on the decans of the natal placements, in this case the Moons. This would be the first personalized input. Based on the sign position of the mdp, we have two possible couples with this square, and the flavor of the sign will matter, triggering either the natal placements in Libra OR Virgo, and giving a flavor to the composite Moon. A couple with the same square will have two different results in the composite, two different lunar flavors. Even the house may matter, such as where this composite Moon falls in the natal houses.Of course, the composite is entirely metaphorical (no actual placements in the sky) but the metaphor is pretty straightforward; mathematically speaking, although abstract, it is very valid, for geometry is based on regular structures which include midpoints (symmetrical structures are mdps structures).
LeeLoo...do you think composites with lots of trines and sextiles will be felt as much if they don't have any squares to cause the stress that sparks each persons interest or fascination with each other?
then you need the soft aspects to mediate between those with flow, acceptance, continuity, durability, comfort
quote:Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:I haven't seen successful composites with just soft aspects. I think the hard aspects in a composite project the idea of strong connection because they reflect how a composite was built ( with the 4th harmonic). I also think they symbolically project the idea of:composite conj - unioncomposite opp - polarity, couplecomposite sq - something to work on, building, active, dynamicthen you need the soft aspects to mediate between those with flow, acceptance, continuity, durability, comfort
That makes so much sense!!
quote:Originally posted by Ceridwen:If looking at harmonious aspects, I usually mainly look at the aspectconfigurations, which will result in midpoint-configurations anyway. And nope, I don´t believe an isolated sextile will have that much sway.
Thanks Ceri so you do include trines and sextiles if they are part of a kite or mystic rectangle or a grand trine but not if isolated?
That makes me feel better, I do like those astrological patterns in composite.
I'm not sure exactly what that does for oppositions in a composite, however -- whether it creates a resonant feeling of a potential conjunction, by the point 'flipping' the axis.
I'll use mine as an example; my cSUN is 28º Leo with my boyfriend, and our cMOON at 08º Aquarius. If, technically, they're midpoints, then the SUN could be 28º Aquarius, just as easily as the MOON is 08º Leo. While we don't get conjunctions from that, it's interesting that they could share 'equal space' of the sign: SUN in either Aquarius or Leo; Moon in either Leo, or Aquarius.
While they won't be in the same sign, at the same time, it's still an intriguing thought. Makes one think.
I would probably also keep notice of a very exact isolated trine, but I am not sure how much power it has on its own. No scratch that, I am pretty sure it does not hold that much power on its own. However if it is part of a Grand trine, or a third planet closely sextiles it, then yes, definitely.
For example in my composite there is a 1 degree trine of Venus to EROS on the IC, which I find pretty beautiful to be honest. Interestingly enough however PHOLUS is sextile both, and it makes a lot of sense. I would ALWAYS give precedence to aspect-patterns as compared to isolated aspects, so yes, I would use the Kite, GT, Yod, golden Yod etc.
quote:Originally posted by Aubyanne:I think, if anything, we need to focus on the axis part, and remember that both signs may be equally valid.
I agree.
It of course raises the old questions about midpoints,is the near midpoint more important than the far midpoint?If two planets are rather close to each othr, let`s say Sag and Aquarius, it seems to make sense that the Cappy-midpoint takes precedence, as it is so close to both planets. However, what do we think about two planets in almost exact opposition then?
Of course let`s say, Mars on 5 Sag and Mars on 7 Gemini. Technically the Virgo midpoint is the near one, or let`s say they are in EXACT opposition, maybe differring just about a few minutes. Surely we can make a near mp too, but it starts looking not just as logical to me, as the Aqua-Sag-example.
I personally view them as an axis, but giving a little more weight to the near midpoint, which might be just arbitrary choice of mine.
So, based on midpoint astrology alone( since the composite chart is a midpoint chart), no other aspects in the composite chart shall be valid but conjunctions/oppositions. hard aspects are done by some but not by others....
also , forgot to say - midpoint astrology, in its general concept, do not separate the aspects to good or bad, they only work with hard aspects and none of these hard aspects are considered negative, they are just regarded as aspects that produce action.
------------------Anomaling around since 1911.
I am looking at the sextile between Venus and Saturn in Newman composite. It's not isolated, it's part of a complex configuration with 8th harmonic, quincunx, angles etc.
The sextile speaks by itself though. It says their symbolic common Venus in Aqua interacts with their symbolic common Saturn in Sag, on similar degrees. No transit on this Venus would leave Saturn untouched and viceversa. Everything happening on the sky at 12 degrees activates this sextile. The activation of this sextile means the simultaneous activation of 4 planets in the synastry: their Venuses and their Saturns. Which means there is a continuous interplay between their common Venus and their common Saturn, for there are always planets in the sky transiting degree 12. From the natal POV, excluding progressions, the interplay between Venus and Saturn in their relationship/couple will always have a sextile vibe, with flavor depending on the transits, but it remains a basic sextile energy: it's an aspect of working together for long term love and building a relationship and a family on 11th house values, with Venus IC ruler in the 1st and Saturn chart ruler in the 11th. With the sextile, this comes easily and natural to them, almost automatic.It's a very powerful, emblematic aspect in their composite.
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